Jays fans boo Leafs star

Morning all

At a Jays game the other night Joffrey Lupul was booed by the crowd. See http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/gameflash/2012/04/11/40564_recap.html?sct=hp_t2_a7&eref=sihp#ixzz1rlTK0F43

As some of you know I have a friend who is a blogger on a North American Sports website. Last night we got into a debate about this and came to quite different conclusions about the fans behaviour. Below is our conversation.


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Justin ####
12 hours ago via Twitter
Maple Leafs winger Joffrey Lupul attended the [Jays] game, and was booed when he was shown on the scoreboard Read more: http://t.co/FsDpNgYX
@jvnanu on Twitter • via Twitter

Tim
“What? Why the hell was he booed? He was outstanding this seasom!”

Justin
“A lot of negative feelings toward the team in general right now. Deserved too in my opinion.”

Tim
“I get the anger at the collapse but Lupul was one of the few consistant plauers. Even during the slump he still bumped bodies, crashed the net and put up points. Boo the likes of Phaneuf, Connolly and McArthur but Lupul, hell no”

Justin
“I agree. But at that point I think they were just booing the leafs. Could've been any player.”

Tim
“I don't get that mentality. I would have cheered Lupul to let him know I appreciate his efforts this season whilst others around him folded. Poor sportsmanship from the fans.”

Justin
“You're right. You don't get the mentality. You can't possible get the mentality because you're not really a fan of this team. This fan base has been led around on a leash for the better part of a decade. Each year it's the same promises and same excuses and apologies. We're pissed off and we deserve to be pissed off. We support this team. We make excuses for this team. We put hope in this team. And they fail us. Hockey is a team sport. You succeed as a team or you fail as a team. The Leafs failed. Regardless how well any individual player may have done, you can't separate player from team.”

Tim
“It's not often we disgaree Justin but I think this is one of those times. I think you are plain wrong to claim I'm not a real fan. Just because I haven't followed the team my whole life doesn't mean I am not a fan. I have followed the Leafs ever since I found the sport... [which]… is the majority of this play-off drought. I dedicate myself to the Leafs and to hockey. Despite being 5 times zones across the Atlantic. So hell don't tell me I don't understand. I get it. Trust me it hurts when a team let's you down no matter how long you've supported them or how far away you are. But, and this is where we differ... I can seperate player from team. I get the notion of it being a team suceeding and failing as one. But I also recognise the various building blocks that make up that success/failure. If your team got shelled one night but one of your players got the first star would you boo him when he came out of the tunnel at the end of the game? If you won the Cup wouldn't you cheer your Conn Smythe winner just that little bit more?”
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My Canadian friend is tucked up in bed right now so doesn't have the chance to reply.

What is your take on the booing situation? (Jonzee already know what your response is going to be!)

I have booed the Panthers off the ice when they have stunk up the joint.

If I felt as though a player had been pulling his weight, I would not boo him. But if i felt he/they had been playing to a level less than expected, they would get it.

End production (goals, assists, touchdowns) don't really factor into it as long as they try.

I rarely feel it's appropriate to boo one of your own team. But hey, I've grown up a Pompey supporter and we do tend to have a different mentality from fans of other teams.

As for Lupul - he had a great season. Perhaps this is just one of the reasons why everyone takes the piss out of the Leafs and their over-demanding and unrealistic fans. Not that the Leafs on this board deserve it I'll quickly add!

I have never booed my team. I don't have a problem with fans that do I just choose not to.

I agree with you though Buff, while Lupul was a representative of the team in that situation and fans may have been venting at the Leafs as a whole but as it was just him there how does that make him feel? If it were me I would wanna go somewhere I was appreciated.

mc_homer wrote:I have never booed my team. I don't have a problem with fans that do I just choose not to.

I agree with you though Buff, while Lupul was a representative of the team in that situation and fans may have been venting at the Leafs as a whole but as it was just him there how does that make him feel? If it were me I would wanna go somewhere I was appreciated.

Exactly my thoughts. Lupul will now disappear of into the sunset, and we will dump Johnny Scrapper on the top line and expect to win the Cup. There is just so much wrong with the Leafs at the moment, from ricockulous fans who expect the Cup, let alone playoffs, the management who, well, don't and the players who (with a few exceptions) don't seem to want to bother. Still, Mike Browns 'tache more than makes up for all of this

I think its a thing you find more in US sport, than in other countries.

There is very little love lost in St Louis between the Blues and Cards fans. Some of the abuse dished out to the Cards last season, by Blues fans was part of the reason the Blues shut down their message board.

A lot of it, is down to jealousy. The Cards have 11 titles to their name and a bottomless pit of cash - well maybe not bottomless, otherwise Albert Pujols wouldn't now be an Angel! The Blues have less than no cash and a string of near misses, to their name.

Now, I have to admit...I can swing both ways..on booing. If the team/players have left everything out on the park...then no booing. If they have put in an unacceptable performance effort wise, boo them off the park.

DRIZ wrote:
Now, I have to admit...I can swing both ways..

Quote of the week.

So in general the consensus seems to be that the North American fans and my friend are idiots for booing a player who put it all out there (even though they claim he represents the team) and that this behaviour is likely to persuade players of his ilk to leave (or not come here in the first place). Man I hate Leafs fan (present company excepted).

mc_homer wrote:

DRIZ wrote:
Now, I have to admit...I can swing both ways..

Quote of the week.

BuffonIdol wrote:So in general the consensus seems to be that the North American fans and my friend are idiots for booing a player who put it all out there (even though they claim he represents the team) and that this behaviour is likely to persuade players of his ilk to leave (or not come here in the first place). Man I hate Leafs fan (present company excepted).

Yeah, the Yanks (and I suppose Canucks) look at sport as part of the entertainment industry. They feel they have the right to boo if they're not getting their money's worth of joy. Footie in England is more serious. It's more tribal. And you don't boo one of your own...

ronnie pander wrote:

BuffonIdol wrote:So in general the consensus seems to be that the North American fans and my friend are idiots for booing a player who put it all out there (even though they claim he represents the team) and that this behaviour is likely to persuade players of his ilk to leave (or not come here in the first place). Man I hate Leafs fan (present company excepted).

Yeah, the Yanks (and I suppose Canucks) look at sport as part of the entertainment industry. They feel they have the right to boo if they're not getting their money's worth of joy. Footie in England is more serious. It's more tribal. And you don't boo one of your own...

I think you hit the nail on the head here Ronnie. They are not shy about the fact they view it very much as a business.

See I kind of agree with both sides here, as a fan you love your team, you want them to do well and you will stick by them through thick and thin! And what does booing really acheive any way!

However as a fan you are also contributing to the team through ticket sales, memorabilia, tv subscriptions etc which surely gives you the right to hold your team accountable. I don't think the booing was aimed directly at lupul, just what he represented. In the eyes of the fans he has been a part of a failure. He should have been getting ready to play In the playoffs not out at a baseball game!

Problem with the leafs is that no-one is really accountable. They make a ridiculous amount of money despite being rubbish So does it really matter to the owners if they succeed or not. the fans can't boycott the games as there are always more than enough people wanting leafs tickets. maybe booing everyone related to the organisation is the only way people will listen?

I don't boo my own team. Red Wings, Steelers, or York City FC.

However, I can sometimes understand why some people do. Tickets to these things cost a lot of money.

Steelers tickets are £15 a pop, and York City are the same, a couple of tickets and a programme, and you're looking at the thick end of £40. To then see players that can't be arsed is sometimes excessively frustrating, especially when sometimes, a day out revolves around a trip to the game.

Win or lose, I like to see a good performance from players who are proud to play for the team and put in their all. When players can't be bothered, then fans can be forgiven for venting their frustration like this.

As for Lupul though, I think he was one of the few Leafs who really had a decent season. But then Lupul was there are a representative of the Leafs, and as such, disappointment in the Leafs will be vented at Lupul.

I've never booed any of my teams. Even when the Rhinos lost a game 74-6, I didn't boo them. And I stayed to the end too. No one sings "we can see you sneaking out" to me

And I wasn't one of those who booed Dennis Wideman either. Poor guy he seemed to be the scapegoat for all the Bruins woes a couple of seasons ago and was booed every time he touched the puck. And it was obvious that it was getting to him. In an interview he said that he could score the game winning goal and would probably still be jeered. Which actually happened.

Hell, I don't even boo Phil Kessel.

Calamity Jane wrote:I've never booed any of my teams. Even when the Rhinos lost a game 74-6, I didn't boo them. And I stayed to the end too. No one sings "we can see you sneaking out" to me

And I wasn't one of those who booed Dennis Wideman either. Poor guy he seemed to be the scapegoat for all the Bruins woes a couple of seasons ago and was booed every time he touched the puck. And it was obvious that it was getting to him. In an interview he said that he could score the game winning goal and would probably still be jeered. Which actually happened.

Hell, I don't even boo Phil Kessel.

I would if I was at the Rogers Centre. Heck, I'd boo any American screwing up the Leafs....

The next part of our debate.....

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Justin
"That's fair. And I'm sorry for my choice of words. You're not the same type of fan. You can't be. You don't have the memory of what it was like to be in the playoffs. You don't remember Game 6 against the Flyers in OT when McCabe couldn't trap a puck at the blue line and it gave Jeremy Roenick a breakaway goal to end the series. You don't remember waking up in the middle of the night as a kid to watch the 10pm games in the West. You're a fan like I'm a fan of Chelsea. Sure I know a lot about the team and I follow their moves and acquisitions and I watch their games and I take pride in their success and I'm disappointed by their failures but I can't compare myself to someone who grew up in London and has followed this team all their lives. And I've been following Chelsea since Gianfranco Zola was still storing goals. If my team got shelled one night and one of my players got first star HE wouldn't expect to be cheered. He'd come out, head down, probably put one skate on the ice, lift his stick and go back to the locker room. Tim this team has had individual players doing well for the last 6 years and we're sick of it. Lupul played better than expected. Would he be a top line foreword on any of the current playoff teams? Maybe Nashville. And cheering the Conn Smythe winner after your team won the cup is a bit of a silly comparison to cheering an overachiever after your team missed the playofs for the 6th straight year."


Tim
"No need to apologise Nanu- it is just a debate. You're right I haven't gone through the trauma of a play-off loss. I have gone through something equally as bad- no play-offs at all. Imagine dedicating half a decade to a team and never seen a play-off game. Not even one. I didn't say cheer the first star, I said don't boo him. There is a big difference. I made the 'silly' Conn Smythe comparison to make my point that some players are and can be separated from their team, something you claim not to be able to do. Bottom line is I think this is a cultural thing. Here we don't boo our own, especially when they have done well and given it their all. I think in North America that is not the case. Lupul does represent the Leafs in the situation, you are right. But I don't think that excuses the fans behaviour, not even close."

"P.S. Zola was a fantastic footballer!"

When I was younger, we never used to wait till the end and boo, it was a case of let them know at the time. That said, I really can't see the Americans using timeless classic's, like....

'Your not fit to wear the shirt'

'We're so shit, its unbelievable'

'What a load of rubbish'

Can you see our American friends understanding the irony of chanting 'what a waste of money' at someone picked up off free agency

I don't think there were any Flyers fans still in the barn last night to boo their team. They all left as soon as the Pens' 10th goal went in. Crazy game

Nope, it didn't happen. Last night didn't exist. Ask Marc, he will agree.